We have a surprisingly constant membership of the group. If we take a picture, we won�t be able to say which group it is � the autumn one or the winter one. Sitting is an amazing thing, because these zen groups cannot be profaned. If there is some activity, the quality of it could be replaced by some form, quantity; and in zazen people can bring the beauty into this process only from inside themselves. In dancing movement can be beautiful, in singing voice can be beautiful, that is in order to make some impression this may not necessarily be spiritualized. But it is difficult to make an impression in sitting, if it doesn�t bear some profound content in itself. That is why, to my point of view this is one of the purest forms of expression of the sacred, because there is nothing more, but pure presence. How much the man is internally beautiful, so much attractive becomes sitting, and the process becomes more thrilling itself. Today we were sitting for the first day, and at once this space appears, that speaks for itself. There are people here who are able to fill this space with a certain content and if you have some sensibility, he is going to feel this.

Before Saint-Petersburg I had a seminar in Udomla, and one of the participants told that during sitting he came to be in a very deep state of witnessing, and in this state there appeared a feeling that someone knew about this state, and a question appeared: if someone knew about this state, wasn�t that someone another ego-structure that knew some deep state? There appeared a question about the one who knew - who is that who knows? This participant became worried wasn�t that ego that knew that he was in the state of contemplation, peace, wasn�t that a trap. Who is the one who knows about peace? It is an important question and now we are going to figure it out.

There is a knower inside of us and he knows not only that we are in peace or in extasy, or in satisfaction, he also knows that we are in pain, in suffering. Someone inside of us knows about all this. Who is this knower, isn�t this ego? Who there inside knows about all that is happening in life? Starting from the very simple things and ending with some extraordinary experiences. Who knows? Is this ego or not? What are the variants?

- If they give explanations coming from some interpretations�

- And if not, then who?

- If there is love and no involvement then this is not ego.

- And who?

- Consciousness.

- Consciousness. Yes, this is the Knower, who knows about everything, not only about internal processes, but about external also. For example, the sun is rising, and we know that the sun is rising, i.e. someone knows that the sun rose, it�s a kind of knowledge. When I have fever, I know about this, this is also a kind of knowledge and there is a knower who knows about this. They say that this is the nature of consciousness � to know; it reflects like a mirror. In China they say that this is an ancient mirror and to know is the nature if the mirror. When you appear in front of the mirror, it reflects you, that is, it knows that you have appeared in front of it. And the reflection itself is a form of knowledge, that is while reflecting you it knows that you are standing in front of it. Another quality of the mirror is that it doesn�t remember your image. That is when you appear, when you are, it knows about you, when you aren�t in front of it, it knows nothing about you, because you aren�t. These two qualities � an ability to know, that is an ability to reflect by knowing, and an ability not to remember, that is not to accumulate dust on itself � exist in this knower. When a man or any other form is born, it knows, i.e. there is a knowledge that something is born, some object has appeared, and someone knows about it, there is a knowledge or consciousness of the body. What is the consciousness of the body? This is knowledge, that is someone starts knowing that there is a body, and some experiences start being felt through it. So, in reality there exist this knower and nature or the Universe, that what is called prakrity in the East. The knower knows about the Universe, he feels it, and consequently the Universe appeared for him.

And through us someone knows about this Universe as well, someone knows about our body, and knows about other people, about the sun, the stars. That is there is a knower who is called nirguna (being beyond gunas) or Shiva, and there is the Universe, prakriti or Shakti, he knows about.

So it happens that there are two phenomena: prakriti the nature and Shiva who knows about it, I mean no individual knower have come into question by now. The nature is reflected in the mirror of the Absolute. Consequently, the mirror exists, because there is someone who knows about this nature, about this Universe. Two of these phenomena, the nature and the one who knows about it are evident, we can�t deny them. And now we need to understand what is ego, where and how it appears between these two phenomena � between the nature and the seer, between Shiva and Shakti. To know that you feel ecstasy, pain, pleasure or joy is not the ego, it is your ability, that is no matter what happens in this Universe, the Knower will know about it, his nature is to reflect. Therefore, any phenomenon that appears in this Universe as energy is at once reflected in the mirror of the Absolute and becomes knowledge. For example, a baby appears. What does it mean it appears? It means that someone knows about him. Consequently, the instant a form appears, there appears a reflection of this form in the way of knowledge. That is why nothing can be born in the Universe as energy without being reflected in this absolute mirror. And nature constantly reproduces thousands and thousands of new forms, new feelings in these forms, and all these forms, as soon as they appear, are being at once reflected in the mirror of the Absolute. Because the Absolute is present all the time, as if when you bring something in front of the mirror, it reflects it inevitably, that is you cannot trick the mirror.

So the mirror of the Absolute reflects, and to know is it�s quality, and as Absolute is manifested inside the man, to know is your initial quality, that is you know about all feelings, thoughts, emotions, sensations, you know all this. Why do you know? To know is your nature, you don�t need any efforts for this, in reality you can�t but know; if something appears you as the basis reflect it. And, where does the personal attitude appear? The personal attitude arises when between the Knower and the knowledge there appears an owner that pretends for the experiences or knowledge. This owner is linked to the ability of a man to speculate, that is to think and create images in the mind. So, one of these thoughts or images is the so-called I-thought. It is simply a thought that pretends to possess that emotions, feelings or experiences that the Knower knows. Actually it is the Knower who knows, the Knower or the Experiencer who experiences, it is he who is experiencing and feeling. But there appears the I-thought and says �I feel this�. Assume, you cut a hand, and there appears knowledge about pain, i.e. the pain. Who knows about the pain? That basis, the Absolute, it reflects the fact of you cut a hand, and reflects the fact that it is painful. Then a though appears inside �I feel pain, I have cut, and I know that I feel pain�, that is there appears some conceptual layer between the mirror of the Absolute and the energy that is the cut. And this thought starts to introduce an additional component into virtually each experience that the Knower knows, that is it is not simply the Knower who knows about something, but a thought appears that says �I possess this; I am the owner of this experience�. This thought by no means possesses the experience, an experience is impossible without the Knower, the thought itself cannot experience anything; it is the Knower inside you who experiences. But then there appears a thought and says �It is me who experiences�, that is as some separate entity, some living being, some personality, it is me who experiences pain, me who experiences pleasure, me who experiences fear. This layer of the I-thought, introducing itself between the nature, between the energy and the mirror of the Consciousness creates an illusion of some structure as if it is living and experiencing this life, that is it brassily tries to claim her rights for the experiences that it has absolutely no relation to. Why does it have no relation? Because being a thought it cannot experience anything at all, it can�t know about anything, but it can pretend for this knowledge or for possessing this knowledge, these feelings or these emotions.

Therefore what is the work on destruction of the ego? It is when you start seeing that this I, or �I feel pain�, �I feel joy�, this I is simply a thought. Because the Absolute truly enjoys, experiences pain, but it never says �I�, it simply experiences, it knows that there is pain, there is sorrow, there is birth. When an object appears, the Absolute knows that the object has appeared, when an object perishes, decays, the Absolute knows that the object decayed, but It never says �I�, never says that I know this. He simply knows and that�s it. But this I-thing says �I� a lot, it says �Oh, what an experience I had!� Absolute is like a mirror, when It knows � It knows, unless some object is in front of the mirror the mirror knows about it, when the object disappears, the experience is over, the mirror remembers nothing about it. True knower cannot say �I felt something� or �I knew something�, because it doesn�t have the past and the future. Same like the mirror � it can�t say �yesterday I reflected this�. You come to it, and it says �Yesterday I reflected Dick, he passed by, and the day before yesterday I reflected Tom, and two days before yesterday I don�t remember, I need to visit a psychoanalyst, to watch my subconscious�. These are the problems of the false knower, because the true Knower doesn�t need to remember as each moment it experiences a thousand of new impressions, same as the mirror each moment reflects thousands of new experiences, and it doesn�t remember, there is no sense. Why remembering something, when there are always new experiences for this mirror of the Being or the Absolute. But this I that says �I experience this�, �Oh, I felt ecstasy�, it starts to condone. First, it didn�t experience that, it was the basis that experienced, the Absolute. But this I-thought appears, and when the experience comes to an end, it says �Oh, that was me, who experienced this. Wow, what an experience I had!� It wants to tell about this, to repeat this experience. This �I� always has problems � how to keep, how to repeat. The basis is abundant; it created thousands of new forms, emotions, what is the use of remembering the old, when each moment you can create billions of new experiences. And this �I� cannot experience anything by itself and cannot reproduce anything new also, that is why it likes to rummage about among the old memories. And it says �I possess, I felt this�. People come and say �Oh, you know, I have experienced��, and it becomes clear who experienced, who I speak to. Because the Absolute won�t say �I experienced�� or �I will be experiencing�, It experiences what is happening now, and not what happened yesterday. A man might have experienced something, may be through him some really beautiful states were experienced, but they were experienced by this Knower. But there are no beautiful states any more, neither awareness of the Knower, there is only the �I� left that is telling now how it experienced all this. So what is left in a man? There are no beautiful experiences any more, the Knower is forgotten by him, there is only this �I� left, that is sitting and showing off. It happens that there is no one to communicate to, only to this �I� �And this �I� that is telling about the things the Knower experienced, but now on behalf of itself �I experienced�, this �I� is introducing itself constantly as a layer. That is as soon as the Knower knows about something, this �I� appears and says �Well, I know about this, I experienced this�. It is like some conceptual or mental intermediary phase that constantly exists. If it didn�t exist, what would be? There would only be the Knower, the pure Knower, and there would be nature. Life and the one who knows about it, and nothing more. Consequently this state of realization is - there is a knower and there is what he knows about. What he knows is the world, its energetic or dynamic component, and the One Who knows is a potential component that is the mirror of this dynamic component. And two of them compose what is called life, this Universe. But there is an ability of the mind to create an owner, the one who thinks he possesses experiences and life, or lives this life. In reality he doesn�t, but he pretends to live it, to possess the experiences, etc. Naturally later on he starts wanting to get enlightened, wants to possess enlightenment. How can he possess it if enlightenment means that there is no him? I.e. when there is no him it means enlightenment, and he wants to possess it. And such an approach clarifies that ego is simply an ability of the mind to create the conception of ownership. There appears a thought �I am the owner of this�. That is not simply �I know about this�, �I know� is humble knowledge, but �I possess�. Or �I experience�, but experience and know not on behalf of the whole, I know this as some personality and experience this as a personality. Personality experiences nothing in reality, it does not exist at all, it is just a small quirk in the mind, a very small quirk that is very easy to get rid of, if simply to understand the way it functions. And when you understand all this, how do you start to live life then? � just purely. Well, you know that you like someone, you dislike someone, something suits you, something doesn�t; you know this with a direct knowledge and doesn�t allow this thought to create an individual knower. The individual knower doesn�t exist. The knower is impersonal. But the thought wants to create a personal knower or a personal experiencer. You need to see that a personal knower, i.e. a personal form of experiencing life �I do this, I experience this� is just a mental subconscious movement. If you don�t have this playing record of personifying, that is you do live but don�t personify this by the means of an idea, then you see that what you know is not personal, i.e. through you It knows about this universe and knows about your body. Your body is reflected in the Knower and thus you know that you have a body. Who knows? He knows that there is a body, that some new body was born in the universe. And the Knower constantly reflects all that happens here. And if you are attentive to the thought, then you might stop this personifying process. The stop of this personifying process when you pretend that you live on behalf of this personal knower or the personal experiencer, is realization. For this personal knower much importance have past or future experiences, and for the impersonal knower it bears no importance, he lives what is happening, that is he is indifferent towards the plot, otherwise the performance is not interesting to watch. Imagine you came to watch a performance, the actors started playing and you tell �wait, wait, let him speak other words!� It means you are occupied with a stage director�s role, you are not a spectator any more and you can�t enjoy as a spectator, that is the job you are doing is not yours. And when the performance is unfolding spontaneously, that is independent from you, there is a point of an intrigue, surprise, and you are interested. It is the same here, why Absolute should interfere and try to structure or repeat something if the energy creates billions of variants, and they can be just observed and enjoyed from moment to moment? And why do mystics say that it is an aspect of enjoying? Because you really start seeing that as soon as you stop possessing the experiences or trying to control, to hold, then you start feeling the taste of the experience itself, feeling it�s tasty. Just to experience something is tasty. For example you drink tea and this is great, you walk and this is great. It is a simple experience, not that you are walking and thinking �oh, I am walking�, but just as it is - it is great. Or you think �how much time is left for me to walk in this wide world?� You understand that if there is something to disappear, it is the world, not you. The world can disappear - this is called inhale, when you inhale there will be no world, but you remain, no movie, but you remain. That is you understand that being the Experiencer you are eternal, but sometimes you watch the movie and sometimes there is no movie. Moreover, Absolute is a tricky contrivance � when there is no movie, he simply switches off, he even doesn�t know anything about himself, he even doesn�t need to be bored. A good way of protection. Usually when the screen is out, and you are left it�s a little boring. But he looses Self-consciousness at once, and becomes a thing in itself. There is no way for Him even to feel bored, because there is no self-consciousness, same with you in deep sleep, you are simply out and that�s it. And he is out, too. As soon as he wakes up, he pushes the on-button. And most of you do the same, wake up and immediately look for remote control. Otherwise you have neurosis at once: �What is happening, who am I?�; and when attention has been diverted, then �Who am I?� is no more important. He has the same, as soon as he wakes up, he immediately creates the universe, and so, there is something to watch! No Universe, no Seer. This guy has no problems. But you are this guy, and you can live on behalf of him, of this Experiencer who has an ability to experience this Universe. At this moment he is experiencing this Universe, including your body. If you become a personal experiencer there comes a problem because the personal experiencer is limited. And this limitedness weights upon this experiencer. Indeed this is a problem that there is an infinite variety of experiences, and I am finite. There are more pleasures than me. And, consequently you live through the experiences, but there is a blot on the landscape that all the experiences you cannot have. And then a race starts, but you don�t have enough time anyway, doesn�t matter if you ran or not, it�s clear that you won�t win over here. But the impersonal experiencer doesn�t have time limitations. If you choose a temporary experiencer, that is this psychological layer of the temporary experiencer, then the experiences remain, and their quality is not lost anywhere, but there appears a feeling that one day I won�t experience them. Because if you are identified with the body then naturally you won�t experience this on behalf of the body, but on behalf of the Basis which knows about the body, about these experiences, on behalf of it, you are constantly experiencing all this. This moment you are experiencing, and you will be experiencing unless this Universe exists. A question: why don�t I remember what I had been experiencing billion years ago? Because the Basis doesn�t remember, the mirror doesn�t remember, it does experience, but doesn�t keep in mind. That is why you don�t remember. It is miraculous that people who can remember billions of lives; all these memories are still the work of the devil. That is these are data records, and there is someone who remembers these billions of lives. But the individual experiencer who has an access to some files of the memory says: �Oh, these are my memory files, these were my lives, I experienced them�. He remembers billions of lives, and an enlightened may not remember what he did yesterday, even what he did today. And he is greater in this respect, because he has no use of remembering, he is experiencing this moment, why to remember what was yesterday, moreover thousands of lives ago. That is this Experiencer has absolutely no use in remembering that he was experiencing dinosaurs, there are no them now, and no experiences, he knows nothing about them. His uniqueness is in that he experiences what is, I mean he is experiencing what the Universe shows to him, but doesn�t keep it in memory. And this ability, your ability to know is inborn. Anyway you are going to experience this life unless it lasts. But an ability not to personify is what you need to learn. And then you will be enjoying any experiences, and, what is most interesting, you will be able to enjoy even definite complicated life situations, emotional or physical. Because now it is not a personal drama any more. When it becomes a personal drama, it is a problem. Why does Absolute create not only positive experiences, but negative as well? He wants to experience them, they have appeal for Him. That is he is interested in how that or this experience is being lived. And you from the part of this Knower do create this dual world, plus-minus. Why? Because you want this. You want to get the experience not only of the positive aspect of life, but the experience of some negative emotions or feelings, because this gives enrichment. You get the range of experiences, you don�t �cut� the bottom of the range, but use the whole range in order to observe. And if you feel this deeply, you see a strange thing � in the periphery you experience pain, but deep inside you can enjoy it. You may have this strange feeling, you become dimensional, and one doesn�t contradict another. It is impossible to experience pain and pleasure in one point of the periphery, there is either pain or pleasure, but as you are dimensional, you may have pain in the periphery, and delight in the depth. Delight because of what? Because in this spot you are free from pain. You know about pain, and when there is pain it is one of the experiences, but there appears the I-thought and says �I feel pain�. You don�t feel pain, you know about pain. Then there appears some other experience, joy for example, and you know about joy.

When you are a Knower you can take a certain kind of delight from negative situations while feeling that you are centered, feeling unaffectedness. For example, when everything goes to hell, but you feel that there is some point inside of you where you remain unaffected, that is everyone goes off into hysterics around you, and you are calm. And moreover sometimes it happens that everyone goes off into hysterics around you, and you too, but they have a total hysterics, but you have this only in the periphery and you feel delight because of this, you see a part of you being worried, doing something, and a part is simply watching this, and enjoying the fuss. This is an ability to feel the dimensions � the Knower and the knowledge, the knowledge on the fringe, the Knower in the center. But when there appears an I-thought between the Knower and the knowledge that says: �I do this, I possess it�, this thought compels the Knower to be involved, that is, to forget that he is only a Knower. That is why take a time to observe the way this I-thought interferes between the pure experiences whatever they are, and the Knower. Because the Knower and the experiences are pure things; they are not bound by any problems. They call them the Creator and creation. That is the Creator and creation interact perfectly with one another, creation doesn�t make a psychological problem for the Creator, and the Creator doesn�t make a problem for the creation. The Knower is the one who is creating, the Universe is what He is creating, experiences are part of the creation and the Creator knows about them. But as soon as the personifying mechanism appears, that is �this is I who feel this�, and there appears time � �I felt it, I will be feeling� on behalf of this individual I, there appears the ego-component of our life. Consequently if you start observing the I-thought, you see that this is one of the thoughts which privatizes other thoughts and feelings. You have many thoughts in your head, and there appears the so-called I-thought, which privatizes other thoughts, it says �I possess the other thoughts�. When there appears a though in your mind �I�d like to go to the cinema�, it is simply a thought which appeared in your head, and as it appeared the Knower knows about it, i.e. you know, you register this link �I�d like to go to the cinema�. And then, because you know about it, there appears a reaction in the brain cortex to this thought, and then agreement or disagreement follows. But at the same time, when there appears a though �I�d like to go to the cinema�, there comes a build-up, a build-up-thought, and it says: �What a good thought has come to my mind�. It is also a thought, an I-thought which says �I possess the thought �I�d like to go to the cinema�, this thought came to me�. It came not to this thought, but this thought accroaches all the other thoughts, it says: �I am the owner of these thoughts�. In reality these thoughts don�t have an owner, they come from nowhere as Poonja says, and they go to nowhere. In reality it happens like this � a thought appears from nowhere, it can come from the outer space, from anywhere - it simply appears. Then this thought is aware of, and the brain responds to this thought in the way it is programmed. The neurosurgeons scientists have recently made interesting experiments � by measuring the impulses of the brain cortex they found out that first there appears a thought in the head, then there appears the reaction of the brain to it, of the physical brain, although a thought is not a physical phenomenon, but the brain gives a reaction to it, because there are some certain programs in the brain which react to the thought. The same when a car passes by, you react; the car is a stimulus, and a reaction appears. Here is the same, a thought is simply an object, it passes by the Consciousness, and the brain gives a reaction to this object. What is important, a thought may come from anywhere. And it is interesting that scientists have discovered a strange phenomenon � first a thought appears, this thought is not aware of, that is you don�t know that you have this thought appeared, it has not revealed in your consciousness yet, but the brain already knows about it, and it makes decisions even before you know this thought is. And only then awareness of this thought comes and an idea appears �I decided this�. Scientists saw that decision making happens on the subconscious level, then it comes out to the conscious area and is being accroached by this I-thought which says �I decided this�. Decision-making happens subconsciously, that is stimulus-reaction happens quickly and on the subconscious level, and on the conscious level there already comes a made-up decision which you haven�t been making consciously, that is it is being presented to you. But the I-thought says �I decided this�. Neurosurgeons saw that the impulses coming from the subconscious part of the brain are several microseconds ahead the conscious part of the respond, that is a person reacts first, and then he or she thinks that it was he or she who reacted. So start looking after this thought, this accroaching I, and if you become aware of it in yourself and not allow it to dominate, then you will pass to this pure component of life � the Knower and the knowledge. Knowledge is everything you experience, feel, think, including thoughts , but nothing personal, you simply know. Try to keep your attention in this position during one-two days, try to just experience life, try to see how this build-up in the form of the I-thought appears which says �I experience life�.

- Sumiran, had the I-thoughts existed before man appeared?

- It is clear that they are manifested more in the high-developed forms of intellect. A dog has a definite form of ego also � my territory, my bone; that is there are the rudiments of the structure of possession already. Consciousness in a dog experiences life, but in the same dog there appears a feeling �I and my�. If a dog didn�t have this component of a definite part of ego, it would have lived like a saint. And life would have been organized in a different way somehow, but it is clear that it was organized in a way that dogs inside themselves also have definite tendencies to identification and possession in the form of thoughts, and naturally they have a definite form of thinking. If turning to simpler species they have less of I-factor. For example a sparrow pecked the grains, but didn�t put them in a sack so that you don�t take them, he just pecked and flew away. He is not thinking about tomorrow, but in the moment he is pecking the grains and another sparrow flies to him, he understands that �now these are my grains�. There appears a certain dynamics of living beings.

Simpler species have it even simpler, for example amoeba was eating something, another came, pushed that away; the first even didn�t notice, there is no awareness of �I and my�. That is consciousness there is in a sleeping condition, we may say. And the higher the biological evolution line is, the more the factor of personifying of the experiences is manifested, because if Consciousness doesn�t personify itself in everyone, then there would be no interrelationships dynamic, that is this world would have been different.

Q.: - So it happens that with the evolution, why I asked � when in the very beginning you started talking about the I-thought and this personifying, I thought that this has a very strong energy, a huge force is standing behind this. To listen to you � it is so simple to reject this personifying and just enjoy life, but even knowing this, even understanding this, you are very well aware that it is very difficult; there is such a hitching when you stick into some thought.

S.: - So what is the question? Why is it difficult, who knows? Again this I-thought appears, it says �Oh, I know, but it is very difficult to me�. That is who knows in you? Because if the Absolute knows, if you say �I know��

- Everything falls away in that very moment.

S.: - That is, if the right one knows, the one who should know, he simply knows and that�s it, he is not saying �but it is difficult for me�, he simply knows and that�s it. That is he is awaken to this and by his awakenness he doesn�t allow this illusion to appear. He doesn�t say �I have to train now, it is so difficult, such an inertia, thousands of years�. Who is saying all this? This personal knower we are trying to get rid of, he is listening to all this and saying: �Well, all this is very difficult, I know about him now�. He doesn�t say �I know about myself�, he says �I know about him�.

So, how this happens � I am telling, you hear this, and it means you know. Who Knows? He Knows. The sound, the vibration enters the sense organs, then it goes to the brain, to the mind, to the central nervous system, then the thoughts which appear there are reflected in Consciousness and come to this Knower and now He knows what I am saying. This is how you know what I am saying. That is the words are reflected in the senses, senses - in the mind, mind - in Consciosness, Consciousness - in the Knower. The message is delivered. This way it happens from moment to moment, you know what is happening here, you as the Knower, but when I am speaking about all this, this interlayer appears � the personal knower who says �this is I who knows�.

So the question is not to know, but to become this Knower who is really the Knower. If you remain in the false knower, then naturally for this personal knower you will tell me lots of difficulties which you have. That is he is these difficulties himself, he doesn�t want to say �I am these difficulties�, he says �I have difficulties�.

When you say �I have difficulties�, I understand that not that Knower that I am telling about has difficulties, but the knower which needs to get rid of in order difficulties to go away. That is it is not he who should be freed from difficulties, but he who should be freed of. That is why the whole encouragement for you is to feel this Knower in yourself, that is when I am saying, you understand: �Oh, I am this Knower Sumiran is speaking about�. That is not �I need to become this Knower�, �need to become� is the language of that knower, of the second one, it is he, who �needs� or �doesn�t need�; and you are Him, and now you as Him are experiencing everything which happens here. Anyway you are experiencing as Him, but at the same time the personal knower appears which says �This is I who feel what Sumiran is saying, now I need to think over this, try to do this, I can certainly fail, but it�s ok, we shall try one more time�, and he starts to create problems in your life. And he cannot be freed from the problems in life, I am always telling that problems can�t be solved on behalf of a person. Problems can�t be solved with the personal approach, either you understand that you are not a person, or if you try to solve something here on behalf of a person, some problems, they won�t be solving, at least basic problems won�t be. Why, because exactly the basic problems have duality in themselves, that is, the main problem is the separation between me and the world, and this is the ground for all other problems � loneliness, death, birth, property, that is all the problems are lying on this basis. And until this ground exists problems can�t be solved, because this is the corollary of the ground. That is why it is impossible to be a happy separate living being, it should be assimilated very well, it is impossible to aspire to personal happiness. I mean happiness is impersonal, you may be an unhappy personal being, because to have unhappiness separation is quite what is needed, is a good method. But if you are tired of such manner of living, then you should study this personifying part. Study how? The One Who Knows should study it, He should hark to, He should listen to, and He should observe this second knower, pseudo knower or pseudo experiencer. And He won�t be saying �I have problems doing this�, H� simply observes him, and then this pseudo will have problems, and you won�t have. Just a little attention is needed.

Look, Snezhanna is asking me a question, in reality she creates a problem for me: �Well, Sumiran, solve it, I have a problem, and you will have a problem, we will solve this problem together�. But I do see that this is ensuing the pseudo-part and I am rejecting to interact with this pseudo-part. I can�t be created a problem, and I am not going to solve it at all, because it is not existing, I mean I say: �it is not existing and you are not existing who proclaims it�. Why? Because I am attentive. And the same way you can be attentive to the way your own personifier inside of you is beginning to tell you as the Knower that you have problems, that is he is trying to explain you that you have a problem, he says: �We have a problem, you know?�, and moreover �you have�. People come to me and say: �You simply don�t understand our situation, you are heartless, where is your anahata, you have to writhe in hysterics because of our situation!� That is this thing is trying to explain that there is a problem not only to you, but to everyone around you. Look, what people are doing � they are going to and pro and telling everyone which problems they have. If there is no one around, the same is happening inside: �You know which problems we have?�, and you are hooked by this.

Why Buddhas are always laughing when they look at the �sufferings� of this world? Because it is funny as this thing is exerting itself in pretending that there is a problemacy. And you ma� start seeing this in others, it is always more difficult to see in oneself than in others. When someone speaks to you and explains you which problems he has, you simply see who is speaking to you, and who is explaining this to you. Then it is obligatory to look at yourself � you have the same process. The point is not in making it shut up, you shouldn�t shut it up, simply don�t take it seriously. That is the point is to understand that this interlayer can die off, it may stop bothering you at all at some moment, if you don�t feed it with earnestness. Naturally, unless there is inertia it is chattering, but one should not struggle with it. Because when you start struggling you start taking it seriously. It is the same that you shouldn�t solve the problems of someone if the person invented them. If we suggest to solve them then we have already taken the non-existing problems seriously, and helped a person to believe that they exist. The same here, you shouldn�t struggle with the personifier, because then you believe that it has some power over you, and you start struggling with it, and for this you have to accumulate some energy, etc. You need to comprehend its mechanism, to see that it is simply a mental vibration which can be ignored, and the utmost thing it dislikes is ignoring. That is it is chattering, you listen to it, I am not encouraging you to push it away into the sphere of the unconscious, you simply listen to what it is saying and that�s it. This is not guidance or a psychological reaction to what it is saying. A person came to you, he says he has problems, you see that he has invented them to himself, you simply listen to him, not telling him to shut up, but at the same time not taking seriously, and not creating some your own situation out of this. The same attitude you may have to your own personifier. Actually this is the only way to end up with him earlier or later, because he will be chattering and chattering, but the less attention you give to him, not pushing him out, but refusing to consider him as something worthy, then at some moment you see that he appears more and more seldom. And then possibly you will approach a state when you will really live as the Knower and the knowledge, that is without him. The first step is to start noticing him, why am I describing his conduct in such a detail, because you have to start noticing him. This is the first step. That is you are noticing how the thought appears; assume, a brilliant idea came to your mind, if it is brilliant, you have implemented it, got the result and that�s it. But when the idea comes there appears a buildup in the form of a thought � �this idea came to me, I am so cool�. The buildup has already appeared. The idea came, it can make some action, some job, and it is quite unnecessary that a thought �I am so cool, what an idea came to me� appears. That is a thought appears which says �I am the owner of this thought�, the I-though starts to possess the idea. And you start to observe all this. Some people through which the energy is coming, truly strong energy, say �We are not doing this, it is obvious for us�, some talented poets say �These are not we who are doing this�. Exactly in these moments they are enjoying what is happening, because in that moment the energy so much obviously doesn�t belong to them, that the I-though can�t speculate. That is a person simply understands �I can�t do this, I have never thought like this, I have never felt like this, I have never had so much energy at all�. And then this I-thought can�t manipulate. All really talented healers and poets say �This is more than we�. And regarding this they approach the understanding that there are no them in that moment, there is only a process and someone knows about it. Although they can miss that there is someone who knows about this process. But the poets and healers have the following � as soon as the flow is over, the power of this intensive flow is over, ordinary actions start and immediately a thought appears �and this is me who is doing all this�. Because they still have a separation � �it is not me who is healing, it is me who is shouting at my wife� or �I am cooking, not me is leading the group�. That is this �me-not me� still remains, time periods when they don�t speculate with this individual I are temporary, local, and as a rule people are creating something beautiful in this moment. And there are periods when strong energy is over, and people think that they are the doers of the ordinary actions. Although in reality the intensity of the energy has simply lowered, and it goes on functioning in a softer mode; this doesn�t mean that this is me who started acting now. So, your target is in any actions to start noticing how this I arises, and when you start noticing this, don�t take it serious. This is the second step. The first is to notice and the second is not to take this seriously. You as the Knower are subjective, you are the Subject, and the I-teller is an object, but when you consider it seriously, it becomes a subject, it becomes you, and it says �I have, and if I have, there is a problem�. First you agree to that �I have�, to have is pleasant. Consciousness is hooked by this. The Knower doesn�t possess, he knows but he doesn�t possess. The mirror might feel disappointed, it sees everything, but can�t grasp it; if it were intelligent a little bit, it would think �why didn�t they attach hands to me?� Can you imagine a mirror with hands? So this ancient mirror got hands somehow. It is reflecting, that is on a large scale it is reflecting and not possessing, but if a blurring happens, then �my�appears. The first �my� is the body, that is the Knower knows that the body appeared, an object in consciousness appeared, a very nice one, and a thought appears �this is me�. The first is the wish to possess. Who would like to be identified with a stone? And why, when the body is aging and dying, the mechanism is breaking, Consciousness leavs it very quickly - because it is difficult to be identified with this. And when a baby appears, it says �This is me�. That is it knows that a baby appeared, but at some moment it says �I will be this baby�. As soon as identification appeared, the problem arises, because this is an energetic being, it is living, interacting somehow, and all this becomes your life. If you have become this, then what you have become, becomes your life. That is if a baby is what you know about, then his life is not your life, if you have become this, then his life is your life, his problems are your problems. The same with the mind, gradually the mind in the baby evokes, and you say �This is my mind, my intellect, my ideas, and all in all this is me�, then the I-thought appears. To possess or to agree to be someone is pleasant, on the first face, but yet has a certain seamy side. That is why there are two positions of Consciousness � the first is that Consciousness is involved into the game of possessing, that is it becomes someone and has a certain buzz from this, and as an effect of this buzz it gets a hangover in the form of suffering later on. And another possibility for Consciousness to be in the matter is not to have buzz. That is you are in a different state, in which you also enjoy, but not the buzz of that you became someone.

That is why, look at how this personifying mechanism is working, and try to have a corresponding attitude to it, and look not only in yourself, but also in the people you are communicating to. If you look at this mechanism, then automatically you appear to be in the right place. What other place you can see it from? The same way as you know that you have feelings, emotions, as you know that there is sun in the sky, this is the way you know about this mechanism. But if you know about it, then what is the place you know from? From the Knower, that is from the place that initially reflects, from this ancient Basis. And then have a relaxed attitude to the I-thought.

Q.: - Well, it�s clear how to have the right attitude to it in yourself, but if a person came with a problem, if he is speaking about it, and you will be laughing at his problems, then you will look not quite adequate.

S.: - Not humane.

�.: - So what to do in this case, how to react to this?

S.: If a person can understand, then better be not humane. They are going to be displeased at first, but it will be better after that. As during anoperation, first you feel bad, but after that it is better. Humanness that plays up to problems results in that people feel easier with you, but it is going to be worse. You do know this, if people are played up in there feeling of life, they think that you understand them, but later on even deeper wallow in this confidence in their problems. But this is not help, you simply help a person to find oblivion, he is trying to find oblivion with you. That is why I see that you need to have a lot of love to be hard on people, because sometimes it is necessary to be hard. But you can hurt a person, that is why you need to have a lot of compassion to create this situation. Like a doctor, who can cause pain at a given moment, but if he doesn�t, the man will die. The doctor knows why he is doing this, and he has to have understanding and compassion, because a person in this moment can not understand why he or she is treated like this.

That is why here one needs an element of wisdom, in order to feel in a certain situation what can be said to which person and how.
But anyway I am laughing, that is internally I am always laughing, but outwardly I can show sympathy. Sometimes I hardly can stand laughing, but I understand that this person won�t understand my face smiling at his problem. But in reality this laughter brings health, and gradually a part of people can understand this laughter. First it seems to them that they are laughed at, that is ego says: �I am laughed at!�, but then a person understands who is worried that he is laughed at. Because the Knower likes laughter, he is the laugher himself, that is why if someone is laughing, he enjoys this, the laughter itself is pleasant. Even if he is laughed at, he likes it anyway, because he doesn�t have an image.

Q.: - Is it possible that an ego-structure appears on the super-personal level? Can a person be attracted to an ego-structure that exists there, and when self-identified in a huger extend become�

S.: - In the view of the limitless limitedness� (laughter). The mind can create as many layers of the ego differentiation as it likes � there is ego, then above this there is another structure � superego, then above this there is another structure � squared superego. That is conceptually we can create an endless model of superegos, of matrices. One can deal with this, but when you escape one ego-structure, there will be the next one, you should escape this, and so on. This is the means for the mind to survive in a certain way, that is when you figure out this ego-structure in one space, it creates the next space itself. For us it is difficult, if we are turned out from the house, it is not that easy to buy another one. But for it it�s not difficult at all, you turn it out, and it immediately creates a new space for itself and says: �Now I will be living here. Let�s call it super-ego�. There was one scientist John Lili, he was experimenting, lying in a solution with a preserved body temperature, the force of gravity was balanced, nothing was seen, nothing was heard, absolutely nothing. What is the mind doing in such a situation? It feels bad, because no signals coming, sense organs are not working; and who am I then, how can I identify myself, through what? A stress appears. First time he was lying for 3 minutes, and went into panic: �come, pull me out of here, I am going crazy�. He was pulled out. Then he wanted to try one more time, and he was again put into that solution. What did the mind make? As there were no objects, no sense experiences he could create environment form, where he could identify, it immediately created some luminous world, two creatures came to him there, and he spent a good time, simply talking to them. He knew who he was � John Lili talking to these creatures, that is the mind has modeled a completely new space of experiences, and there it found itself again, it created other objects and established an interaction, a status. Thus he managed to lie for an hour in the solution.

The same here, you should understand that it is better to finish this speculations of the mind at once � there is the knower of this universe, and who knows this knower, there should be a next knower, and this knower is known by the next knower and so on. Such an endless chain of knowers. You should simply understand that there are personifying and impersonifying, only two. If you can count up to two, you can already be enlightened.

Q.: - Can you count up to three?

S.: - Up to three is already difficult, you start getting mixed up. That is how all this is working � the Knower who knows all the rest, the rest is the knowledge. The Knower and the knowledge.

If you build up yourself from knowledge, from some objectified aspects this is ego. If you don�t build up, you become the Knower, who is not the knowledge. This Knower is single, he is not multi-leveled, all these multi-levels are in the sphere of conceptual area, that is of the objectified one. And the Knower, as it is not an object, is not fragmented, you cannot divide it, because if you pass to it, this passage is made at once, by quantization. And if you start feeling a step-by-step movement, then you are simply moving in your dream. When you wake up, you can�t be half in reality, half asleep,. That is you woke up, there is no dream, you understand that dream is dream, and this is reality. You can go on moving in a dream, but when you wake up, you understand that all these movement was relative, you are in a definite spot of space, and you have always been here. And this happens at once. The same here, while the feeling of awakening is appearing as some matrix of uncovering, you are still anyway inside a dream, but this dream can be moving towards the awakening, that is when you wake up, you are sleeping less and less deeply, then you start hearing some sounds from this world. But the moment of awakening is always happening like quantization, you can�t say that you are half here, half asleep. When you have awakened you are already here.

Q.: - The reason I asked this question is that when this passage happens there happens also a dramatic increase of the intensity of the wishes, meanwhile there is no self-identification as a person, but the intensity of not simply experiences, but some dynamics, I don�t know, some dynamics of will, is increasing at once. A wish is a sign of ego, isn�t it?

S.: - No, it isn�t, a wish is energy. Look, when your personal grip becomes weaker, your conceptional grip, what society has put on you, some conception, what is left is your energetical matrix, i.e. picture. Naturally, when it stops being controlled by this conceptual social buildup, these energies start manifesting stronger. Assume you had aggression inside, but your breeding said that this is bad, then naturally when you throw the breeding away, you feel that you have become more aggressive. If your sexuality was suppressed, as soon as this is released from the buildup, you feel that you have more sexual energy, etc. That is you start passing from a person to individuality. And this is not the strengthening of the ego, on the contrary, ego didn�t allow you to feel the real energetical factors, that is, ego tried to control energy. As soon as ego is thrown away, the energy exists as it is, your feelings and their intensity will be depending on your picture, nothing is going to shield it anymore.

Q.: - That is if I feel wishes wholly, allow them to manifest wholly, it doesn�t mean that my ego became whole, rather on the contrary I am transcending these frames.

S.: - Yes, you are transcending the social structure, the personal structure and entering the individuality, the energy picture that was put into you by nature. And ego, what is it? It is not your energy, not the power of your wishes or needs. Ego is the ability to possess them, that is ego says: �I am possessing this�, this is the first what it is saying. Second, ego decides what should be, what shouldn�t, what you should feel, what you shouldn�t � this comes from the ego. The feeling itself, the intensity itself comes not from the ego, this is your natural energetical part, individual part. But you can appear to be in the following situation here � when you throw personality away, and pass into the energetic component you come back to the natural, animal part, you become like an animal. And when one throws away the civilized part, leaving only the energetical without bringing an additional factor of what is called awareness or intelligence, higher intelligence instead, then you pass into the animal form of life. I.e. undoubtedly, you will not be a neurotic, you will simply be a healthy animal. Certainly, from the point of evolution it is a step backwards. That is why, the first thing � one can throw away the social buildup, but is obliged to bring in the meditation dominant. If the meditation dominant is not brought in, there are two choices �to be either cowed law-abiding citizens or anarchists, hippy who live as they like, not structured at all, like a flock. If we don�t want to be in either variant, consequently we need to bring some third force into our life which is awareness, that is an ability to bring in the element of structuring life not by conceptual restrictions or norms, but by the ability of our consciousness to balance our energetical life and the life of the environment. Why was the society, the state created? In order to balance the energetical impulses of the individuals. What is the means to create society? The outer norms, that is the state is the outer norms imposed on individuals, on their energetical picture so that they could somehow live together, get on well with each other. Not according to the laws of the pack. Consequently here is always a conflict, because the norms that are brought from the outside restrict and control energy, so the tension appears. That is why a question arises � can we find a force inside of us that is able to balance the energy component that we are and the outer world? How this happens � if I am awaken, aware, I understand that the other is not the other, that on the level of the Being, of the Basis, we are all one. That is why if I start destroying someone now, after some time it will have an impact on me, and these are not just words for me, I understand this very well. For example, I understand that on the body level I am whole, and if my finger is aching, I don�t think �well, if it is aching, I cut it out and that�s all, why do I need an aching finger?� Here is the same. Thus we start being more balanced, we start balancing the social life due to understanding, to feeling, awareness that we are a common basis, and we should interact with one another in a way that the situation is settled always in a mutually beneficial way.

Q.: - But what if when you are in this state and it happens that someone let us say hurts someone, you take it personally, that is you don�t differentiate between yourself and the one being hurt, but the reaction to this offence is as if it is you who is hurt. There is your identity with a person who is hurt, but no identity with the offender. That is why you take it as a personal offence, etc., and then dynamics starts.

S.: - It is already not bad. Assume you go deeper and start feeling affinity with some beings who are oppressed. You feel that when they are offended this resonates with you. But if you go even deeper, you see that you have connection with those who offend them also, and you start understanding the reasons why this happens. That is wisdom appears, you start understanding that both the victim and the one who destroys or suppresses this victim are the parts of one whole. And it seems to you that they cannot be in synthesis, these are antagonisms, how can they be parts of one whole, if one destroys another. But this is simply lack of depth, when you deeper see, you start understanding that there is a certain dynamics implied in the universe, someone is constantly destroying someone. The food chain is based on this, everyone constantly gorges another. The whole universe is founded on this, that is the whole biological life as it is, is based on mutual destruction. But the nature has implemented such a wisdom in this mutual destruction, that while constantly gorging one another we as life have been living billions of years on the planet. Therefore when someone is killing someone it seems absurdity from the point of view of the fragment, but if you saw the whole picture, you�d understand that this is due to some aspects inevitable or predetermined. And then you have compassion towards the victim, because it is feeling pain, suffering, but you don�t have aggression or claim to the one who is destroying this victim somehow.

Q: - The negative attitude is rather to the dynamics, to that between these two beings who are the one as such there happens a kind of opposition in front of me, there are two poles, reaction appears to this.

S.: - Yes, but what should you look at? I simply describe you a subtle mechanism, it is important for everyone, when you see a kind of unfairness,- I want to remark that exactly �a kind of� � this may cause pain. There can be an energetically and psychologically unpleasant situation, you will feel pain if you are sensitive. Then you have a wish not to feel the pain, you don�t want to feel pain. This is why you have a certain attitude towards the situation. In reality this is not the attitude to the situation, this is the attitude to pain. You say � I don�t want to feel pain, and as you behave yourself in such a way that I feel pain, I don�t want you to behave like this, you shouldn�t do this. But in reality what is primary is your pain and inability to live through this pain without claims and aggression. You feel aggression towards your pain, you don�t want it, but you don�t see that you feel aggression to it, that is why there happens a transfer, you feel aggression towards those who cause pain to you. That is first you feel aggression to your pain, you don�t want it to be. This is familiar to you, when you have some disease in the body, and you can�t cure it for a long time, you start feeling aggression towards this, you think: �why does this happens like this?� It lasts for such a long time that you cannot project it on the people around any more. When the pain is fragmented, for 5 seconds, you say �oh, I feel angry at him�, and when the pain sacks you, you start understanding that these are not the people around who sack, the pain sacks you.

Q.: - How can I combine the superpersonal understanding that all this is one whole, both me and these people are one whole, and pain is exclusively an egoistic urge�

S.: - No, pain is the part of the whole.

Q.: - But my unacceptance of pain � this is the reaction of the ego already.

S.: - And this is also the part if the whole, all this is the part of the whole. The matter is not that you start retouching everything, taking away the unacceptance of pain. You just simply transfer to a space from which you perceive it with another eye. From that space you will see these two people, your reaction to this, reaction of your ego in a different way. All these will stay where it is, you simply transfer yourself, as a seer, as a knower to an absolutely different space, which is absolutely from another dimension, which is not in this world, not in this informational matrix. That is you still have all this � ego, reactions, some foolups, but the one who knows about it is not the one who you now feel yourself to be. That is you become a being absolutely from another dimension. That is you are not solving problems, you simply become transcendent towards them, they remain, but they stop being problems. That is there are situations, if you look at these situations from that space, they look like energy pictures. If you look from that space they stop being problems, they start being the play of life.

Q.: - This is a play, but when you are in this situation, you can choose for all that, at least this thought appears � either to solve this situation, and it stops being, or this situation lasts and you observe it, but it is more preferable to solve it, because�

S.: - Now look what is happening � when you solve the situation or don�t solve. Anyway you remain unsatisfied, because you are doing this. Unless you are the doer, whatever you are doing, you will have a feeling that you could do in a different way, in a better way. This is not a way out. Whatever you do on behalf of a person it will always be some stuff and nonsense. I mean you may intervene the situation and this will be stuff and nonsense, you may not intervene � this will be stuff and nonsense, too. Because you have a feeling that you are some person that can do either this or that, but whichever way you do, you will always have a feeling that something doesn�t match here to the full. That is why in order not to have such a feeling, you need to look from another position, to be in another place of perception, and you will see that you may intervene the situation, and everything will be ok, you will enjoy, you may not intervene, and anyway you will enjoy. The emphasis will be not on what you are doing, but on the way you experience the situation, this is what important. If you are making an emphasis on what you are doing, not taking into account the place you are experiencing this from, then whatever you do it will be stuff and nonsense. It is simply a fact. There are people who have lots of possibilities to do something � politicians, presidents, they have lots of possibilities, but they always have a feeling that people live not as they should, not obeying the laws. They actively interfere, but what have they changed in the world? Are there less wars, misery or corruption? But everyone is interfering. And if not interfering, what happens � revolution, anarchy, opposition comes to power. This is the result of non-interfering. And when we interfere � there is totalitarianism, prisons. Both die being disappointed. And in the individual life there happens the same, you can start interfering, and the more you interfere, the more people will be saying � �why are you interfering my life?� And if you don�t interfere, they will be saying that you are indifferent, and you don�t care about anyone. That is why any movement in life and any word is against you, and the absence of words is against you, because we all are the thorn in the side of the existence. However, when there is no you, everything is good, no one to bring claims to. A person comes and there is no you, who to bring claims to? No one. That is why not to be, not to be here, that is subjectively you are not here, but objectively some actions are happening, but either you interfere or not depends more on your individual picture, on your programming, which upbringing you had, which traumas you had in childhood, all this is going to define what your psychosomatic organism will be doing. And let it live it�s own life, and you will be in another point. This makes the situation free from psychological tension, and it doesn�t matter how it is going to unfold, let it be as it is. Anyway there will be no problems, if you are in the right from of self-consciousness, and if not � you will always have problems.