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Completeness and Fullness of the Matrix of Perception (Part 2)
10th October 2007, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Yesterday I paid attention to an interesting thing. There is a saying
that is often used by people God is one. And a though came to my mind that
God is he, third person singular, and all these persons first, second, they
imply there is the other. One implies that there is no another one. But
people for thousand of years had been saying God is one, thus combining
incompatible concepts, because if God is one, who are you then who is telling
this? So you are not included into this oneness. It turns out to be that one
may say about oneness only using first person I am one. Thats all. But all
of them didnt dare to say this, or they didnt have enough experience. So as a
result they had created an expression that used the language of multiple
persons, and tries with the help of this language to speak about the single
God. This means that people who had invented this phrase where stupid
theorists. When a person has truly experienced oneness he wont be able to say
God is one he either says nothing, or says in first person about oneness
I. Thats all. You cant say another way about oneness either I am one
otherwise there is plurality. God is one it is nonsense. It is a
combination of incompatible linguistic concepts. And people dont try to go
deeper, i.e. to look at what they are saying. To put a little attention to the
language aspect and we see that there is simple philosophy. In the mind any
words could be combined, for example cold fire or dry water. And in the
same way expressions about God and Truth could be build up. But if it is your
experience, you cant say that fire is cold. Your experience is the warmth of
fire.
For instance, the Upanishad says: I am That, and this most closely
expresses oneness. That here is not a symbol of the other. That points out
that I am indescribable, I am that what is indescribable, what could be pointed
at, but cant be described.
Yesterday we dealt with uniting of all three components: the body, the
Being and the Seer into one whole. Western society comes across only with the
illnesses connected with identification with the form, i.e. all the psychical
illnesses are linked with the fact that I know myself as a form, and I dont
know myself as a Witness or Creator of life. Hence are certain tensions,
conflicts, etc.
But in the East, when people started to practice meditation, they came
across the illness of meditators. Some people both in the West and in Russia
also start touching this. This topic wasnt touched until a certain moment,
because it had no actualization. But as there appeared Masters who began giving
you the algorithm of what is called practice, some people began to really
meditate, and not profane it. Consequently, now we face a certain situation
that has been well known in the East long time ago. This is zen illnesses, i.e.
the illnesses of those who meditate. It came out that in meditation there are
its own illnesses, its own traps. While a person is playing in meditation, he
cannot get ill, i.e. while you are making ice-cream from pastry, you wont get
sore throat from eating it. Thats why the issue of zen illnesses wasnt that
relevant till recent time. Due to the fact that some people started to go into
it on a deeper level, there appeared a necessity to speak about these illnesses
of meditation. It was well known in the East, and probably these illnesses have
more problems than those of identification with form.
Zen illnesses are identification with Being and Witness. As a matter of
fact we are triple, i.e. we are form, Being and Witness. Any emphasis on one of
these aspects while the others are neglected can be called an illness. And its
important for you now to get acquainted with these illnesses, to understand and
avoid them.
As Ive already said if you make an emphasis on any principle of the
three form, Being or Witness, while two others remain neglected, you are
going to manifest certain inadequacy in life. Your challenge is to actualize in
yourself all three components, then you live in integrity. Life has given you
the body, has given you self-consciousness as the Being and has given you the
Seer in order to experience all this, and if you have actualized all these
principles in yourself, then you live in integrity.
A modern person has to learn to actualize all three constituents and at
a certain point in life to manifest the constituent that is demanded by life.
For example, when you go to the shop and the seller inquires if you like some
good, he is not addressing your Witness, he may know nothing at all about him.
Life in the face of the seller addresses your psychosomatic mechanism, i.e.
actualizes your personal structure, it sees the structure and wants to get
information from it. You may say I am not the one who chooses. What the
seller should do then? Do a meditation course? He isnt addressing this level
in you. To be adequate is to respond to the demand from the required level,
i.e. to see what your psychosomatics reaction is, whether you like the good
that is offered to you or not.
Another situation is possible a disciple comes to a Master and the
Master, in order to check if the Witness level is actuated in the disciple,
asks where do you come from?. The question has a trick in itself and the
disciple has to understand that this time, it is not to the shop that he came.
The disciple says from Denver. And the Master asks and how much does rice
cost there? The disciple begins to answer. So the Master has provoked the
disciple.
When an advanced disciple comes, he responds the question like there is
nowhere to come from, nowhere to go, and the Master understands that a person
of a certain level came to him, the one who knows that coming and going are
relative things, and he came not for the relative, he came for the absolute. He
wants to make it clear to the very end and announces it.
Try to miss a day at the office, come to your boss and when asked a
question: Why didnt you come, where have you been? respond like There is
nowhere to come from, nowhere to go. This is called zen illness, when to the
demand of the outer world the person isnt able to actualize his periphery
level, i.e. he becomes inadequate. To manifest the aspect that is not being
addressed to is also a form of psychological disorder. Thats why when you
actualize all three levels in yourself, there is an interesting situation
dependent on the factors of the outer world, you can say I, use first person,
i.e. all three levels are you. If all the mankind were up to date with this,
there would have been I number 1, I number 2 and I number 3 corresponding the
levels. But as its not like this, you need to grasp on the spot which number
is addressed to and from which number I to speak in this or that situation.
Even so with the same person one can begin speaking about high matter I am not
a choosing Conscience, I am not changing, and just in the same time, when
asked if you like some tea, to switch to the corresponding level. Here is
revealed the variety, i.e. a person can shine these facets like a diamond, and
each facet reflects light from its own angle. And there is a diamond, its
facets are worked on according to a certain technology and this is the
masterpiece of art. i.e. one and the same light falls down and splits into
millions of variations. The same with a man the light of life is reflected in
him and he can play millions of variations at once, depending on what is
happening here. He may play various facets not opposing one another. From this
point of view the opposite sides are not at variance with each other, but are
mutually complementary. The same is with colours. If an artist had an approach
that each color negates the other he wont be able to paint canvases. And the
fact that I am a certain psycho-physiological system doesnt deny the Being and
the Witness. The fact that I am having some likes on this level doesnt deny
that I can be a witness without choosing, and this makes an enrichment. And I
am learning to live manifesting the facet that had most resonance with life for
the given moment.
I call such person a person of the new type. This is a person that
suffers neither from the materialism illness, when one is obsessed only by the
form, nor from the meditation illness when one is obsessed by the choiceless
witnessing, by his freedom. The first type is anxious about loosing their
property, the second type bears a subtle form of division, thus separating
themselves from the manifested Universe.
You need to see these levels and become aware of them so not to hang on
in one of them for too long. For example I was hanging for some time, because I
had no necessary information about this that I could apprehend. As soon as I
got this information and became able to comprehend it, the situation closed
immediately. This hanging on is due to the absence of the factors that could
lead you from there and close the situation. And I am uncovering this to you
now so that you werent sticking to those levels for too long. As Osho said
The pathfinder is traveling along the unknown land; if he hasnt got a Master he
feels everything on his own back. However, later on these stages could be
passed easier, as the mankind is also going its inner evolution and the
technology of transmitting the subtle issues of meditation is enhancing.
Q.: - But when you were passed these stages you were reading books with
satsangs of Ramana Maharshi, werent you? There was the information that it is
not enough to simply be aware of oneself as a Seer, you have to make one more
turn and come back to the heart. Didnt this information help you?
S.: - This information is spread along a huge amount of lots of other
information and one needs a context; needs to understand what he calls the
heart, what he calls coming back etc. Its not easy to do something when
there is no possibility to specify the meaning of the message by asking the one
who told that things.
I want you to become aware of all these three levels and that your I is
present in each of them. You dont deny the qualities of any level, but use
them according to the situation. If you stay among ordinary people you dont
distinguish yourself by anything because your ordinary level is actualized, the
level of the personal system. If you are in the company of awakened, you are
also not distinguished by anything, because your self-consciousness is on the
required level. You are able to keep up the conversation of any level.
Zen dialogs have their own beauty, because masters when testing the
disciples where skipping from level to level. And if a disciple could not
respond to the question, master understood that the latter hadnt unified all
the levels in oneself yet and cant easily pass from one level to another.
One well-known saying about this is First, mountains are mountains and
rivers are rivers. Then mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no
longer rivers. After that, mountains have once again become mountains and
rivers have become rivers. i.e. first, mountains and rivers were real and I was
a part of this reality. Then they are no longer the reality, because I am the
Seer and what I see is not me, its my dream. Then I understand that what I see
is also me, and mountains are once again mountains and rivers are rivers. I am
ordinary again. The stage when I as a Seer deny what I see as being not me
this is zen illness. Thats why Shankara, the founder of Advaita, has made
three postulates. 1. Brahman is real. 2. Universe is not real. 3. Brahman is
Universe. And many people came to Ramana for explanation of these postulates,
because they couldnt understand this. And Ramana gave a beautiful explanation.
He said that Brahman is reality. The Universe isnt real when you see it as
being separate from Brahman. If you see the Universe as a thing in itself that
exists separately from the Seer, then this Universe is not real. I.e. its not
the Universe that is unreal but your idea about it. And if you see the universe
as a manifestation of a single force, of Brahman, then this Universe is real.
This is why you have to unify this trinity in yourself. Seer is your
ability to know. Universe is what you know about. Being is what the universe is
being formed in. Attention is what you see with. Why do people have such a
strong mental tension? Because mentality that is working without being
conscious of the Witness is overheated. The same as a motor operating without a
cooling system is going to be quickly overheated. This is the way the mind of
the western-type people works, it is always overheated. All the psychosomatic
system is overloaded, because the level of the Witness is not actualized. And
if I am aware of the Witness, this makes a relaxation effect on the mind, it
cools it down. But if I slip away into the Witness and live it as the only
reality, then the cooling system is working, but the motor isnt, and its
still impossible to drive. Totally cooled down, but without moving anywhere.
We are manifested here as an integrity, and if one of the fragments is
missing, this could be called unsound. Thus, integrity gives health and an
adequate respond. Notice the level someone speaks to you from, where his
actualization is at the moment. Its quite normal in the relative world to have
a relative value system. But even when you make a choice in the relative world,
you are aware of the witness part that doesnt make choices, it is simply not
actualized at this moment. But your awareness of it creates a background, and
on this background the relative part works. And then the relative part is not
over-tensed.
Q.: - Is the expression I make or I choose correct? May be the action
or the choice occur is more correct? May I say I choose and if I may, from
which level then?
S.: - From the level of Being.
Q.: - Being makes a choice, does it?
S.: - Yes, it does. Being responds. Look how this happens as the level
of being is not programmed by the past, it can react and respond, but its
response is not a consequence of the past. And it's possible to say that this
is its freedom in responding or freedom in choosing. This is freedom from the
past. But on the other hand, Being is integral, that is why in its response, it
doesnt have a choice. The choice is when there are two parts and someone has
to choose between these parts. Thats why in the response of Being, on one hand
there is freedom from the past, and on the other hand there is not any choice.
Usually we understand it like this when there is no choice, then its not
freedom. And if there is a choice, then this is freedom. But here I can act only
one way the way the Whole has responded. And if the Whole in me is
actualized, I feel that I dont have any choice, the whole acts in the only way
possible. But I am free in this because the respond of the Whole is not
programmed by history. So, in this total choicelessness you get freedom.
Q.: - And where is I choose here?
S.: - You see something happening and you have a response. This response
may be called the choice.
The same is with the action. If the level of Being is actualized in you,
then while experiencing something that happens, it responds to it. This
response is action. This action uses the psychosomatics of the body. If you
identify yourself with the creative force of the Being at this moment, you
indicate this force by the pronoun I and say I act. If in this moment you
identify yourself with the person, i.e. you call the person I, and you feel
that some force is acting through you without taking your wishes into account,
then you say God is acting through me or Life is acting through me. Thus the
language of bhakti appears God does through me. But with the pronoun I you
can denote this force, and then you are going to say I do, I manifest myself
in this world.
Q.: - And what is called impersonal action?
S.: - Impersonal action is when we agree not to use the pronoun I and
to use a word combination impersonal action instead of this.
Q.: - But one may not use this word combination or the pronoun I, but
say the action is happening.
S.: - One may not, but if we investigate something with the help of a
dialog, if we use the gnyani method then we have to introduce some language
structure. And we can either use the pronoun I or not use, but we have to be
clear about the thing we apply it to.
Q.: - But there is no me in this feeling, only the impersonal force.
S.: - Yes, and one may say that the impersonal force acts, or one may
say that I act. Look, when I say I, I need to understand that this I is not
linked to the psychosomatics of the body, but under this I the impersonal
force is implied.
Q.: - Yes, and when both interlocutors mean the impersonal force by I,
the conversation is transferred into whats the weather style, as if by
nothing different from the talk on a personal level. So here is no sense to
clarify I or not I.
S.: - This is exactly at the level of the satsang to clarify these
issues, when there is a disciple who doesnt understand, but wants to, and
there is a Master who has this understanding. Then this dialog appears, the
play of this I, i.e. we are investigating. And a conversation on a personal
level by form might not be different from that on the Witness level, it might
be the same talking about weather, but the climate will be different. As Gurdjiev
used to say, all talks on the personal level are always ended by a scuffle. And
if people are conscious, their talks are always ended amicable; they may sit 24
hours, two days, a year together, but the conflict is impossible to happen.
That is the difference.
Q.: - Id like to come back to the previous discussion; the absence of
choice is humility, isnt it?
S.: - This is the way it is experienced when I am speaking from the
part of the body-mind mechanism. then I understand, that I do nothing here,
either my past acts, or if the God in me becomes active He is acting through
me. So, I am just a servant here. This is the bhakti language I am serving
God, Im in service. Otherwise if God in me is not actualized, I feel that I am
a machine; this is the language of Gurdjiev I am a mechanism acting from the
programmed past. In case of bhakti it is also the mechanism that is acting, but
it is in service to Light, to the higher forces, and the psycho-physiology of
such a person blossoms. One may call this humility. But if I transfer
self-consciousness into the Light, this is not service. I say, I am the
Creator, I am the master of my life; and this is another type of language.
However if my actualization is in the body-mind mechanism, then proclaiming
that I am a master of my life is inadequacy. If I see a person that is
completely identified with the body-mind mechanism, and who proclaims at a time
that he is doing something here, then I see that he is in deep delusion. But if
I communicate to a person in whom the Being, the Light is active, and he says,
I am the king, then I see he is adequate, he is speaking from the part of the
force that is the King here, he is connected to it. So, Nisargadatta Maharaj,
who had a Seer level actualized in himself, responded to the questions what is
your attitude to wars, to violence? as if he didnt care, as God created this
world, let him take care of it then. This is the language of the Seer. It is
not the language of the Absolute, which is at the same time the Seer, the God
and the world. And from the part of the Seer he spoke: This universe appears
in Consciousness, Consciousness is Light, Light creates images, these images
are functioning here somehow, so let the Light deal with what it creates. All
this is reflected in me, but I dont deal with this.
And this was the position of the Seer. This is not the language of the
Whole. From the Whole he would have said it differently. And this doesnt mean
that he isnt aware of the Being and world levels, it is simply that at that
moment for some certain person he was speaking from the part of the Witness,
because in his wisdom he decided that it would be more appropriate.
How do you decide which I to speak from? Only in your wisdom. And
wisdom is the depth of your self-consciousness, it cant be measured, but it
does exist.
There exists also the language of the Whole there is no freedom, no
boundness. When everything is one and the concepts of freedom and boundness
cant come up, as there is no the second who can bound you, and there is no the
second from whom you are free. It is the same as with movement we say that we
can feel movement only as compared to something else. Peace is also comparative
in this sense. Is it possible for you to feel that you dont move if there is
nothing moving in relation to you? i.e. you understand that you are sitting
because something is flickering in front of you. If there is nothing flickering
in front of you, how do you understand you are moving or not? There is no absolute
immobility, because absolute immobility cant be experienced. If you experience
that you dont move this moment, then there is something in comparison to that
you dont move. What is experiencing? This is friction, movement, it means
there are two the thing that is experienced and the one who is experiencing.
This is why, if I am experiencing freedom, I am already in duality. If I have
truly realized Advaita, I cant say I experience freedom. Thats why they say
that Buddha doesnt know he is Buddha. And if you know youre a Buddha, then
you arent. True awakening lies beyond the bounds of freedom and boundness. You
arent free nor bound, you are simply That is. Thats why experiencing ones
freedom is zen illness. One might live for a long time in this, but it is not
realization. To be free is not realization.
Q.: So it is to be not free in something?
S.: Its not about that you arent free in something, it is about you
are not complete. As Satyam Nadin says: Life is playing in freedom and boundness.
i.e. there is freedom in the Seer and boundness in the form. The Universe
comprises both freedom and boundness in itself, and does this even
simultaneously. If I choose boundness this is the life of an ordinary person or
the illness of the living beings. If I choose freedom, then it is zen illness.
If I unite these two factors, then I say that I am so much whole that I
comprise both freedom and boundness in myself. I am transcendental; I am beyond
freedom and boundness. Consequently, I dont have problems, neither with
freedom, nor with boundness. When something limited appears in my perception, I
go on being aware of my freedom. But in my freedom, I go on being aware of the
limitedness of some life forms. In this respect I am not trying to move from
limitedness to freedom, and Im not afraid to loose my freedom. One can have
attachment to things, and one can also have attachment to ones independence
I am independent, and this is valuable for me.
Q.: - And did you, while being in the Seer for some time, have a fear of
loosing your freedom?
S.: - No, I didnt, but I had a kind of subtle feeling of imperfection,
incompleteness.
Q.: - This is why I was asking you about fears, are they possible in
this state? There is tension indeed, but for my part, it isnt connected to the
fear of death and fear to loose ones freedom.
S.: - Everyone might experience it in their own way. I go through the
whole range of possible feelings.
Q.: - Sumiran, Id like to ask about bhakti who feels that its God or
Being who is acting through him; if he is identified with the instrument, can
he be aware of the Seer at the same time,?
S.: - Yes, he can, if he is an enlightened bhakti.
Q.: - I cant understand, how is that possible to experience these
things at the same time?
S.: - It is that possible. There was Swami Ramdas, unfortunately his
books are not translated into Russian; he was a contemporary of Ramana Maharshi
and a well known Master in India and in the West. And he came to realization
through bhakti, at the same time he was a strong gnyani, and when he was asked:
Ramdas, why do you go on singing mantras? You do know that you and Rama are one,
dont you? - he answered: Yes, but in this oneness there are still Rama,
Ramdas and the process of worshipping. And all this is I. And this doesnt
prevent Ramdas from doing what he likes to do. A person can realize that
worshipping could be embedded into the psycho-physiological mechanism; and one
of its parts is worshipping the other.
Q.: - Example of Ramdas is clear. Lets have a look at another example.
Do you remember I gave you a book of Bruno, where he says: It is not me who is
healing, it is God who is healing through me. It is clear here that he is
speaking from the part of the instrument and is aware of the divine force. How
could we understand if he is aware of the Seer or not?
S.: - As I feel he was for sure aware that he is that God, that energy
of the Being who is making the treatment. But regarding the Seer Its
sometimes difficult to feel this though books. Its clear why he used the
language of the instrument, because it was very dangerous to use the language
I am God in Germany at that time. He was pressed upon even with such a form
of self-expression; what if he had told that he is God? But according to his
manifestation it is clear that he was one with the force acting through him.
Q.: - I also wanted to ask one thing. You told us about the living
beings illness and zen illness. Are there any deviations from adequacy when
one is identified with the Being level and what could these look like?
S.: - On the level of Being, the main type of problem is that this state
could any moment change into preoccupation and the person is well aware about
this. Indeed, when a person totally comes out to the Witness level, from this
level its virtually impossible to be preoccupied with the form. But there is
such a danger from the Being level and it is a fact that when the sattvic
energy comes to an end, you are again identified with a thing. Things are made
of light and are reflected in the mirror. If you are a mirror the reflection
doesnt affect you then. But if you are the Light at any moment you can become
a thing. And if you are a mirror you reflect both the Light and things, but a
thing can never enter the mirror. Light is what moulds you, thats why Light
and a thing have one and the same reality. Light is an object and a thing is an
object, they simply have different intensity of burning. The Seer is another
level in principle, this is what reflects the object. And the second thing
there is no impartiality in Light. There is love, compassion, you suffer for
your creature as a mother for the child. There is the care of Light for his
creation. For example, you can feel Nisargadattas and Oshos endless care and
compassion, but at the same time there is felt endless keeping aside or
uninvolvement.
So you are going to be pushed from Light, you are going to be made to
search further. Compassion is a subtle form of tension.
Q.: - Could you speak about freedom one more time? It turns out that
this feeling of freedom of the mirror, although related to the world that is
felt as not me, doesnt have fear. And
this is ecstatic. And it is relative, not because I am afraid to loose this
freedom, but simply because the world is not me.
S.: - Yes, one may say that there is no fear to loose freedom. But there
is still some fragmentariness. I.e. freedom is a part of the Whole. You have
chosen only freedom, and this is a fragment of life. There are freedom and
limitedness in life. Freedom is in the Seer, creativity is in the Creator,
limitedness is in form. Life is manifested in these three states. If I signify
one of these components as not me I loose my completeness then. I can chose
limitedness and suffer in this, I can choose freedom and enjoy it. But there
will be no fullness.
Thats why a yogi is beautiful by his freedom and a Master is beautiful
by his fullness. Limitedness is a miserable event. Freedom is a very beautiful
event. Fullness of life is a magnificent event.
In order to feel the beauty of freedom, try to adjust yourself to the
photos of yogis. It is sometimes difficult to see freedom in a Master, because
he unifies everything in himself, he looks human.
Q.: - Freedom is to a high extent manifested in Ramana Maharshi.
S.: - Yes, there are yogis who are not interested in this world at all;
they are waiting till the body dies. They even dont have a wish to speed up or
slow down this process. They simply sit down and wait till this ends. Thats
why Ramana had this highly manifested quality of freedom, he was also sitting
and waiting, for 20 years he was almost silent, unless the second death
experience happened. Even his body turned blue. Then something happened and the
body started recovering. And after that he started teaching in a more
extroverted way.
If you are in pure freedom, then all of you are going to be in
mahasamadhi in the moment of death. Ramana used to speak there is no
difference between avatars, yogis and gnyani. Master is just richer, the Seer,
the Creator and the man are united in his consciousness. And you can live 30-40
years in an enriched way. Or you could live this time in a state of freedom and
thats it.
That is why, when I was living life from the Seer, I had a feeling that
practically everything was over, but at the same time there remained an
intangible sensation of search. But not the search of freedom, but the search
of absolute completeness of life.
Q.: - And according to your feeling, who does this effort belong to?
S.: - This is the effort of the life itself.
Q: - There is a feeling that starting from the level of Being there
isnt any you. You say you have to become aware of, so who has, who belongs this effort to, what should
be done?
S.: - Its enough to listen to me, giving it all the heart and complete
attention.
Q.: - Now yes, but when I am in this, everything is functioning
according to other laws there, and someone has to hang about in that for a
long time.
S.: - Could be so, but if I meet across him, I will rake him over the
coals. Actualization of going to the Seer has its own inconceivable ways. One
of them is that I am speaking to you right now. And what I am doing now is
being put into the matrix of the universe. I.e. what is happening right now?
The universe organizes itself in such a way that Life opens absolute fullness
of Understanding through some individuals. Thats why you shouldnt do
anything.
Look, whats important from some point we cant do anything by
ourselves, personal effort is over. After that something could be happening to
you. Being at the satsang, in the Masters field, you find out that what you
cant do happens as an impersonal event.
Q.: - What is an intensive group?
You need certain intensity, but life is not developing this intensity
through you, and if you are trying to create it yourself, once again you are
creating a doer and find yourself in vicious circle. You feel that the
intensity you have is not enough for something to be finished, and on the other
hand you feel that you cant increase this intensity, otherwise once again you
are increasing the ego-factor. Thus you come to someone who will increase this
intensity and simply surrender to him. When you sit down to practice at home
this could be a personal effort. When you sit down to practice in a group
because a Master has created a schedule, then you are sitting not from the part
of the person, and intensity has been increased.
Q.: - Isnt it creating a doer when one agrees to sit in practice?
S.: - Yes, but not so much as when you have made yourself sit. Here is
more surrender, you surrender to the circumstances. But at home you are
creating the circumstances yourself.
All the West is obsessed by creating circumstances, that is why there
are so many psychological trainings aimed at success and attaining something.
East is more to follow the circumstances, i.e. you surrender to circumstances
and flow with the river of Life.
Q.: - They say that it is the act of surrender that is important, and
not to whom you surrender, it may be anything. Essential is to loose yourself
in this.
S.: - As regards the inner state you may surrender to anyone. But as
regards life events you have to think to whom to surrender. You will be free
internally, but your life may become hell.
Q.: - But if you are internally free, then whats the difference about
events?
.: - Theres a big difference
for that part of you that is the body.
Q.: - There are symbolic figures that mean to signify the level of the
Witness, for example it seems to me that Shiva is such a symbol.
S.: - The symbol of pure Freedom, i.e. beyond the human form. Probably
yes. The same as Christ is the symbol of the level of the being, the symbol of
Love. There are significant figures that mark out some layer. But a human can
unify all the layers in oneself.
That is why your challenge is to unify everything in yourself, not
having stopped half-way. Its a pity, but the nature of a contemporary person
is often to start hundreds of affairs and complete nothing. He has got no time.
But this feeling of incompleteness doesnt allow getting inner completeness.
Our task is to finish the religious search once and forever. And then
start a new stage of life. And I would like you to not only conceptually
understand this scheme, but to live through each level, deeply, and to be able
to unite them in yourself. Then it is
going to be beautiful.
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